[Music] [Andrew Banis] We are going to be talking about how you can supercharge your brand's success on TikTok by uniting creativity and media. So that's a long way of saying we're going to help teach you guys how to make some better ads.

Quick introduction. My name's Andrew Banis. I'm the Head of Creative Operations in North America for TikTok, a mouthful of words, but basically, I teach clients how to make better and more impactful ads. I try to convince them to take bigger risks and to really talk to their communities differently, native to the way that people communicate on our platform that we know users really love and engage with readily. So I'm not going to teach you guys how to go viral today. If I knew the answer, I'd probably be doing so myself at this point. So really the lens of this is really how can we arm and empower brands to have better and more active dialogues with their users in a way that's going to drive action. And do so through the TikTok context.

So as you all probably know TikTok is the leading destination for short-form video content. I usually like to start off conversations that are more brand-oriented, thinking about how does our algorithm work. It's an amalgamation of ton of really, really rich short-form video content that's distributed on interest-based ways of understanding how people engage. But think about it as it's a breeding ground for some of the best content in the world. And when you think about your ads or your commercial content as a brand, we can't... We don't do forced view ads on TikTok. We can't make somebody watch your ad. So you have to be able to compete and grab attention alongside some of the best short-form video content in the world. And so that's a real challenge for brands and advertisers to think about how do I adapt my processes, how do I show up differently. And not only is that a challenge but it's an opportunity, not only for these brands but for creatives all across the world. So I think knowing that this swell of a need for content is there and exists and it's growing at such a rapid pace. And the results of actually participating with better content are driving so many business objectives for brands. We see this being a huge impact to the creator economy over the long term. And so, hopefully, we can teach some people in this room how to take advantage of that and really think about knowing this is a really important need for small, large, medium advertisers across the world. How do you turn that into practical business use, whether you own a brand or you want to help support a brand? So let's talk about TikTok a little bit more at a high level. We always like to talk about how it's really an immersive experience when you're actually engaging with TikTok as a user. So it's a full screen. It's built vertically. It fits on your phone. And we always talk about how it's a sound on environment. You're rarely watching TikTok while you're waiting in line at the coffee shop. When you're watching TikTok, you're watching TikTok. Hopefully, you're not driving and TikToking. That seems extremely dangerous. I don't condone that for any of you guys out there. But when you actually think about what does that mean when you're putting content out there, it's the full experience. It's not just the background noise as you're scrolling through your day to day.

People do use TikTok as distraction, but they're actually immersed in the content as they're being distracted. And they actively lean in as well. So some of these fun stats that support that.

Our users are 1.2x more likely to be solely focused on TikTok, the full attention on the actual platform itself compared to other video platforms. And 20% of TikTok users are more likely say ads on TikTok are memorable versus ads on other platforms. So we're going to lean into that a little bit today.

Really, really impressive to throw a B up there. When I joined TikTok a little over two years ago, we were not at the billion user mark. So it's amazing just to see how fast this has grown and how rich these interest based communities have become over time. So we've gotten to a point now where a large percentage of the world is on TikTok. And a large percentage, 92% in fact, of TikTok users say they take action in some way, shape, or form after they watch TikTok. So it's really, really the zeitgeist of culture and trends and conversations. And it's been amazing to watch it grow and really flourish. And the best way we've been describing now is its exponential entertainment.

Loaded words. I'm not even exactly sure how to think about that concept. But as we think about our platform, it is an entertainment platform. People are coming here for entertainment at a rapid rate in which it's growing and taking different shapes and different interests. It's truly an exponential growth that we're excited about.

Our users do come to TikTok for a number of different things. So all across the board, especially if you're a brand trying to understand the mindset of the audiences you're looking to reach. Know that they're here for many reasons. And because of that, you can be multifaceted in your approach. And you can actually look to drive significant business outcomes and varying business outcomes knowing that our users are here to take action, and are also looking for just reasons to try something new.

So when you think about how do you thrive on TikTok, one of the most important premonitions with an advertiser we need to start talking about. You need to start thinking and creating for TikTok. So really coming up with a TikTok-first approach.

When we think about why you need to do that, it's because users are really immersed in the experience, but they come for the experience. So as an advertiser, you want to fit in and actually play to the strengths of that experience that users like. So you can tell your stories in a memorable way. And if you do so and you think first, that's really when your brand can thrive and drive those objectives. So some cool stats here to support this, our TikTok users are a 3.7x more likely to trust For You Page programming. So if you actually, like, dig into that a minute, one of the things that users love about TikTok is they think the For You Page knows them better than they know themselves. And if it's coming up on their For You Page, they want to see what it is. And so just that deep trust that users have in our algorithm is something that if you really think about it, right, it's like how do I play in the immersive field that people are engaging with this content? And how do I mimic and understand how to tell the stories in the way that naturally are occurring on people's For You Pages? Seventy-four percent of our viewers say TikTok-first ads catch their attention. So, again, there is no forced view, so you can swipe right by if you notice it's an ad or doesn't feel right. And for that reason, our users actually reward people that are making ads that are in the nature of the platform and really collect that creativity and joy that drives users to keep coming back to our platform. And then the actual performance of the ads driven against TikTok-first content significantly better. So we're seeing this really big...

It's called, like, a renaissance of advertisers thinking about if I show up differently, "I can drive better objectives. How do I do it? How do I do this fast? And how do I really scale content production in a way that's going to help me turn this audience into business value?" So a really long lead in. We're going to cover three things today. Hopefully, I haven't lost anyone's attention yet.

The first thing, how to create for TikTok, then we'll deep dive a little bit into how to scale creative success. And we can't talk about TikTok without talking about trends. So I want to contextualize a little bit today how to think about trends and how to use trends. So we'll do a whole section on that. And then we have a wonderful creator with us today, Daphne Le, who I'll bring up here, and we're going to do a fireside chat. She's an expert, not only as a TikTok creator but also an expert Adobe user. So I'll give a little bit more of an introduction later. And I'm just telling you guys, you don't have to listen to me for a full hour. Bear with me for the first 30 minutes, and then I promise I'll bring a very entertaining creator up here.

All right, so through showing statistics and case studies to some of our largest and most strategic advertisers, they say, "Great, I'm convinced. I want to start building TikTok ads." And they go, "How? We don't know how." So the narrative that we've tried to really simplify for our clients and our advertisers, there's three ways. You can do it yourself. And so you can think about things like tools such as, what's called, Adobe Express or Adobe Premiere Pro. And quick shout out, we did just launch a post to TikTok yesterday, so we're super excited about our Adobe partnership. So from both Adobe Express and Adobe Premiere Pro, you can directly post to TikTok today.

So excited to launch that with MAX. But if you actually have the skill set internally as a brand or maybe you have 1,099 contractors that you work with or people that are naturally good at building TikTok style content, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, you'll see a lot of advertisers that have done this with just, like, amazing kind of funny footage around the office, and it just lands really well on this platform. So there's nothing wrong at all with actually creating your own content. And it can range the gamut of different production styles or different creative ideation. But we always encourage our brands just to take the leap, try something new, have fun.

The other way is if you really want to build TikTok content, but you don't have the resources or the competencies in house, you can actually work with an expert partner. So you can work with an influencer marketing agency. You can work with a creative production agency.

You could work with a remix partner. There's so many different partners that we curate and bring to advertisers, all of which have specific skill sets that help them to make TikTok style content. And then I think everyone's favorite, one of the things that we're most excited about as a platform is really introducing creators to brands and letting those creators teach brands not only that they can make content for them but teach them how to make content and how to think TikTok-first. So you'll hear a lot from any presentation you go to where TikTok's presenting about the lifeblood of our platform is the creator, and the amazing creativity that we see on our platform is almost impossible to recreate because it comes from so many individual creators that post all the time and really create this firehose worth of really amazing short-form video content. So one of the things I always tell our advertising partners, our creators are open for business. Use their skill sets. Don't be shy. They're not shy. They want to talk to you. They want to work with you. And as we think about how we work and collaborate with Adobe, every step of this process needs editing tools and needs really good production across the board. So our partners can use the tools. Our creators can directly use the tools, and then brands as well, so if they want to make their own content.

So thinking TikTok-first is really kind of a more of a mantra, right? We don't want people to just think, "I can repurpose this asset into a 13-second slot and put it on this platform. It'll do well." In fact, what we've seen is the statistics prove that does not work.

So if you look at, like, traditional advertising cycles, a lot of companies have built out the competencies to build TV commercials, billboards, things that have been around for a long period of time. So this is a new muscle for them to actually think TikTok-first and start building content for the TikTok audience.

But there's an interesting way to start thinking TikTok-first, and I think that's what we'll decode here.

So the basic starting point is the simple things like production best practices. Know your safe zones, know what's in display, know what's not, understand how captions work, understand where different call to actions are going to live.

So the safe zones and vertical video are kind of table stakes. Hopefully by now, people understand horizontal videos don't fit well into TikTok. You're going to have too much black space on either side. Users might be turned off right away. But just being cognizant of safe zones, right? I don't think you need to build too much skill set other than let's know they're there. Let's check them. Let's make sure that we're thinking thoughtfully about building vertical first.

Structure and stimulation. So we have all these amazing tools in app or through our partner tools that help you really liven up your content by putting text overlays or emojis or filters or effects, knowing that what grabs people's attention oftentimes is the stimulation of the actual content itself. And building a strong structure for you to actually portray the story.

Knowing that as you're thinking about building for TikTok, these are some basic, like, I guess, table six things that you need to consider. And I mentioned sound on being a really important concept. So you can actually really lean into sound on TikTok knowing it's a great way to not only distribute content but also gain attention from those users that are viewing. This is a campaign example that I think is a perfect example embodiment of how to leverage sound in a piece of commercial content.

So I'm sure by now some of us are programmed to know that every kiss begins with K sound. It's been in TV commercials for years and years. That wasn't the same version that you've typically heard before. So if you actually think about it, that's a custom sound made for TikTok that's really built for that audience. But it allows the brand to show up as their true self in a more playful way that's more appropriate for the platform. So thinking TikTok-first doesn't mean blow up everything you've ever done and start over. It means adapting and thinking about "How do I build a consistent brand message in a way that actually lands well with the audience that will see it on TikTok?" I'm going to show another really fun example here. This is one of my favorite campaigns we worked on this year.

Think about a TV car commercial. And imagine Rolling Hills and, like, beautiful aerial shots of these cars driving through, and we're talking about the extended warranties and the miles per gallon. And I think one of the things that we've been really learning about brands reinventing themselves on TikTok is that people have numbed themselves to the message that happens in those pieces of content today. So this is a totally reimagined version of a Hyundai campaign. And actually, just a quick brief story. This is an existing conversation that happens on the platform from two very well known creators. So on the right, you'll actually see, his name is Amari, and he's one of, like, the most brilliant chocolatiers you'll ever see in your life. And he makes these amazing sculptures. And on the left, you're going to see a guy named Chef Reactions who duets and stitches these videos and gives his opinion on people cooking. And these are actually two sponsored videos made by creators for Hyundai. And I'll watch and then I'll give you kind of a debrief at the end.

So Hyundai tagged me in this. And by the way, it's a Hyundai, like Sunday. It's not Hyundai. It's not Hyundai. It's Hyundai, like Sunday. And I should know because I'm a Hyundai owner myself. My last three cars including my current one have all been Hyundais. But by the looks of it, I'll soon be trading in my current vehicle for one made out of chocolate. Ridiculous. He's making the IONIQ 6, by the way, which is Hyundai's new electric vehicle. That's where I wouldn't be surprised of at that end, but he was like, PS: This version also gets up to 360 miles on a single charge just like the actual IONIQ 6 Bekas. Why not? Making little vents, that's spray painting the body shop. So if this thing looks that good made out of chocolate, imagine, what it looks like in real life.

Casually bust out the lathe, obviously, ooh, taking some strays, careful. Hope you're getting hazard pay. Brims. Yep. All right. Let's get to the ratings. 100 out of 10, woody, and you have 10 out of 10, and drive it as well.

So if I told you that I'm coming to Adobe MAX to show you a minute long car commercial, chances are no one would show up to the session, right? But what's interesting, right, is, like, that brief started in this very polished... This is the exact talking points you need to hit. The dos and don'ts are so long, right? It's like, how do you actually infuse creativity into this. What was very thoughtful about Hyundai thinking TikTok-first was let's just inject the information we want, the story we want to tell into an existing story that people already know and love and want to engage with. So these creators have had this interplay back and forth throughout the year of whenever he makes this amazing chocolatier work, the reaction of this guy's so good, right? And so they've found that moment. They injected a story in there, and it actually turned out to be an amazing performing campaign. And not to mention all the Hyundai people got little chocolate model cars sent to them, as kind of a thank you gift. But how does the audience react to this? It's clear. Like, read these comments, right? If you're scrolling through, you can see the sentiment. People have never seen stuff like this. They're excited by it, and they're not afraid to tell you.

So actually tying back to one of my original points here in the beginning, think about TikTok as this firehose of amazing short-form video content. But one of the best things about it is the immediate feedback loop that you get. If it's a good video, it's going to distribute and you're going to get amazing viewership and good reach. The comments section is blatantly honest here. When people like something they're going to tell you, when they don't like something, they're also going to tell you. But the beauty of TikTok content is that the shelf-life doesn't have to be extremely long. So you can learn and test and invest very rapidly in this market with little to no downside, right? Like, no one is going to fault a brand for trying a TikTok. It may just not get much distribution. They may get laughed at or flamed in the comments, but the reality is, "Cool. I tried that. I'm moving on to something else." So it's a great testing ground with almost a virtually immediate feedback loop of "Is this something I should lean into or not as it relates to how to tell my stories and get my concepts out there into the real world?" And then who's going to buy a car off a TikTok video? There's hundreds of comments being like, "I am now considering buying a Hyundai on just this one version of this video." So this is the kind of stuff that gets me so excited and keeps our team super motivated. But it also is something that's just showing how different this renaissance of content creation for media is starting to be within TikTok kind of as the epicenter of it.

So when we actually think about, like, how do we decode, how to recreate something like that, or what really drives a moment like that to be interesting, we start to look at what are different values that TikTok audiences want from commercial content.

So entertainment is very clearly indicated by that video that we just watched. You need to have entertainment value included in the commercial content that you're creating.

And if you do, the community will respond to it. So you can tap into existing communities as the example we just showed or you can make more broad entertainment based concepts, but definitely your ads ultimately do need to be entertaining to be successful on the platform.

The next real big, like, kind of a pillar of value is that people love to be educated when they're here, when they're actually logging in to TikTok. They want to learn something new. They want to see a product being demonstrated from start to finish.

They want to learn in 30 seconds or less, should I care or not, then I can do more research and dig deeper into it. So don't be afraid to educate or demonstrate or show before, after, start, finishes, etcetera. And lastly, really leaning into expression. So I think authenticity is a word that's very often used around TikTok. But expression is another iteration of authenticity. You have to have emotion. You have to have POVs, brands that are really leaning in and having fun and expressing joy, and you can see it through their content are the ones that are finding the most success on the platform. And those ones were encouraging beyond our platform. Go make that your brand persona out in the world because ultimately that's how people are reacting to it in this pressure cooker that is TikTok.

And not only do we want to drive value, an interesting marketing science study that we did actually teaches us that variety is quite important as well. So you can't just make one ad, especially because people don't watch the same video twice typically on TikTok. You need to make valuable ads and you need to make a lot of them, and you need to continually refresh them. And when you do so, you get significantly better return on your ad spend for your media campaigns.

And so, ultimately, value and variety is a really important duo as you start thinking about building a strategy for TikTok, try not to do one or the other, it's both, and you shouldn't have to compromise. So how do you make a lot of good content? That's the question that we're all looking to solve. And I think that's where we're really challenging the creative community to come up with ways to make it easier to get more content at a faster rate.

When we think about variety, there's different ways to actually achieve variety. You have a different diversity of topics, for instance. So oftentimes, we talk about TikTok as being an interest graph. So if you think about what actually shows up on your For You Page, who are you chatting to in the comments section of these micro-communities, it's very specific interest based communities that form on our platform. So you might know things like book talk or horror talk. Those things naturally occur, and they build these amazingly strong communities. And so if you're a brand, you might want to think about what are some diverse communities that I can tap into today that are relevant to my brand messaging or aligned with the type of people that I think would ultimately want to participate with my brand or become a consumer eventually. So don't be afraid to look across the diversity of topics. Don't play, don't be a one trick pony. Be willing and able to try a number of different things.

You can also experience with different levels of depth. So if you think about trying a number of different topics and understanding that some are working better for you than others, go really deep in that topic. Look, if you can partner with voices that exist within that topic, look to see if you can figure out what are they actually being drawn to where they're part of this group to begin with, and how do I tap into that emotion.

And then versioning. So as we talk about the need for more and more and more and better content, it doesn't mean that you have to shoot the same video, let's say, 5 or 10 or... Sorry, shoot 5 or 10 unique different videos, you can also think about taking shots or creating one video and being able to remix it and turn it into many assets because maybe it was a long form with different arcs or stories. But we are seeing quite a few of our advertising partners really looking at how do I turn one asset into many and versioning things into more automated or quick fast turn way.

And as I mentioned, one asset can be remixed into endless possibilities. And we're also seeing quite a few of our advertisers thinking about, well, we have brand assets that we've already produced for other platforms or for other shots that we've done. Or we have TV commercials or YouTube ads that we built.

We've seen success in actually, like, TikTokifying or remixing assets by making short, fast, quick punchline driven cuts to those edits and making it more appropriate, to be put on our platform.

Okay, we're going to get into trends, which everyone typically associates TikTok and trends together. I'm sure people are engaging within this room and many different trends all at the same time.

Trends are both a powerful and a dangerous thing to actually orient your whole strategy around. So when I think about trends, it's important for me to think about there are different types and levels of trends that you need to be aware of as you decide how closely do you want to tie your strategy to trends. So we're actually going to look at this as a kind of an arc from what is the most broad to what is the most specific. So there's this concept of creators like me on the TikTok platform, and creators like me is ultimately reflective of I want to see someone that's like myself, telling stories about things that I care about, and I connect with that, right? So it's driving that authentic connection between the creator and the actual user. So think about that as the most broad conceptual concept of creativity and how you could show up is, I want to work with creators that are just like the people that I want to target and try to create an authentic and active dialogue between those two. But if you dig one layer deeper and start thinking about, "Well, what does that actually mean? And how can I think about leveraging this "creators like me" idea that's become really popular on TikTok?" The next layer is something we call signals. So trend signals. These are ones that have been around for a while. So it all starts as a trend. And then if it stays around long enough, we would then call it a signal, meaning it's not just the moment in time, it's actually graduated into being kind of a stake, an important stakeholder of how people want to experience content on the platform. So if you think about within creators like me as the overarching theme, you then have some different signals like TikTok investigates. Like, let's get to the bottom of this, right, or radical transparency. I'm here to tell you the truth about this or breaking the drugstore stigma, right? It's all of these things are, like, active dialogues that have been happening not just for a moment in time but for a longer period in time on the platform that helps you to create an authentic dialogue between the creator and the audience. Then we get into moments. And I think when people hear trends on TikTok, they actually are thinking about moments. And that might be something like the Pedro Pascal video and, like, the... I don't know, the latest sound that people are all making the same dance to. There is value in brands participating with that, but it's also a very thin strategy and something very difficult to plan for. So as you start thinking about it, there's a difference between trends, signals, and ultimately forces, which is like the long term thing. Make sure that you're not being stuck too far downstream and just reacting to trends. That is a great way to participate. That should not be your only strategy. So what you want to look for is beyond the trends that you're drawn to, beyond the trends that you want to build for. Is there anything that's more long term that's related to it? Because that's where you really want to build towards, where it's something that's actually going to last for a while.

And then even beyond that, like, what is the macro creative strategy that you're really trying to tap into behind it? And, yeah, as I mentioned, when people are talking about trends, they're talking about what's trending now. And, again, it's important to note that and to cater your strategy to learning from that, but don't let that be your only strategy as a brand because then you're just gathering a series of random moments in time where people are thinking about you with no cohesive story.

So there's different moments and time trends such as different formats, different sounds, or different filters. Again, these are powerful tools. But think beyond just the TikTok trending moments.

And then explaining kind of the difference between a short term or long term trend. I don't know if there's any beauty creators or beauty enthusiasts in the room.

There was a trend recently called Tomato Girl, which is a very specific trend around a makeup trend that was happening on the platform. And if you think about that as like, "Okay, I'm a brand. I want to participate in the Tomato Girl trend," you're not thinking big enough. What is behind the Tomato Girl trend that will actually help you build a creative strategy that's going to work for a longer period of time, then until this moment no longer becomes relevant. So if you actually look into it, it's very relevant to something like a day in the life. Those videos have been on the platform for quite a long time. Unboxing is very popular and Get Ready with Me. I think everyone that has anything to do with makeup or fashion probably sees multiple Get Ready with Me videos on a daily basis. So when you start thinking about what's trending now, it can help unlock how to be on trend for a longer period of time by looking at what are the relevant signals that have been around for a long enough time to really drive an impact towards.

And yeah, think about creative formats. They're going to kind of yield lasting value for you over time. And it doesn't mean you can't participate in those momentary trends too. Like I said, we need a lot of content, and it's also fun, and it's a great way for brands to be expressive. But I would say as you're thinking about long term TikTok strategies for brands, look beyond just the immediate, easy low-hanging fruit.

And I'm wrapping up here. I know that that was a really short session. We could go on for hours about different ways to do creative approaches for brands. But one of the things we always like to leave people with is TikTok's all about just jumping into the deep end. So whether you're a brand or you're a large enterprise, you're a growth company, you're starting something in your garage, or you're just a creator that has an opinion and has something to say, jump in. There is no downside of posting to TikTok. Have fun. Don't worry about creative numbness. And then it's not a daunting thing, right? So I think years ago, our conversation with advertisers was, "Don't let this be daunting. Let's try baby steps." And now we're being really aggressive and saying, "You've done this. Let's go faster and more." So a quick plug to our booth downstairs. If you've never posted on TikTok, go jump off that ledge creatively, and you'll get a TikTok hat, and get some swag to take home with you. But yeah, as we're talking, not only into brands but creators alike, it's not scary here. You can post. You can post often regularly, and you learn very quickly what works and what doesn't work for you directly from the platform in almost real time.

So our second part of the session, we're going to pull up Daphne Le, who we're really excited to have here. She's actually part of the Adobe squad of creators. So she's this amazing... She has this amazing ability to actually bring high production value to her TikTok content. So oftentimes, there's conversation around TikTok being unpolished and just get content out there. Shoot with an iPhone, not with a good video. That's actually been destigmatized through our research. What actually matters is that it's authentic. And if you can bring production value to an authentic story, it's lightning in a bottle. And I think Daphne's done a great job of doing that. So I'm going to play a quick hype video for you, and then we're going to do a Fireside chat.

I gotta turn it on. Yeah.

[Daphne Le] Hello. Thank you for that introduction. - I'm so happy to be here. - Great. So we have just like a pretty informal chat with Daphne, so you can pick into her brain and learn a little bit about her. I'm going to ask some curated questions.

But we're super excited to have Daphne here.

I think a great first question is always, how did you get started on TikTok? And what's on your For You Page today? So I'm actually supposed to be in medical school right now. In January of 2021, I got into medical school, and at the same time, I was laid off from my consultant job because of the pandemic. And so I thought I have six months until I go to medical school. I already did the thing I've been working towards for my whole life. Why not pick up a hobby? And my hobby was that in high school, I did short films and I used Adobe After Effects. So I started to pick up Adobe After Effects again, and I started posting on the app. And I actually am not the type of person who ever wanted to be big on social media. I never wanted to go viral. I don't even really like public speaking.

And I started posting just because I wanted a place to sort of yell into the void and have somewhere to put my creative videos where I wasn't going to be judged. And none of my friends had picked up TikTok yet. I'm right at the Gen Z, millennial cusp, but I was unemployed having existential crisis, scrolling constantly through TikTok, and I saw a bunch of other people finding community. And I thought, "I could post here. I could be whoever I want here." So I started posting. That video I posted five months after I started in the app, and it catapulted me from around 10,000 followers to a 100,000. And that video led to my first ever brand deal, which actually ended up being with Marvel Studios for the Black Widow movie. They even invited me to the premiere and to the red carpet. And at that point, I decided I can defer medical school for a year and just see where this takes me. This is once in a lifetime opportunity. So I deferred med school in 2022. I'm obviously not in med school now, so things are going okay.

Love to hear it, and it's crazy how explosive the growth was on the platform.

I'd love to know a little bit more about, like, the interest-based communities that you participate in, whether it's as a creator or even as a consumer or a user viewer? So with my video specifically, I started out by recreating VFX from Marvel and Star Wars, or even using my talents in VFX to create things like superpowers we had seen in comics that had never been seen in live action before. And I would also post short videos about how I did this in Adobe After Effects and how you can too because I'm completely self-taught. And so through that, I found the editing community, the Adobe community, but also the Phantom Community and the Causeway Community, which are both communities that really love starting honest and open conversation about the things they're passionate about. So I really lucked out with sort of immediately jumpstarting my TikTok following by interacting with those types of people. So cool. Earlier you were telling us a story about how you got into Adobe or just creativity in general. I'd love for you to share with everyone because I thought it was so interesting. Oh, well, my family and my teachers always had this inkling throughout high school that I wanted to go into the entertainment industry because I love doing creative things. I love making videos and doing photography and writing, but they always discouraged me because I am the child of immigrant parents. My parents are refugees of the Vietnam War, so they wanted me to do something that would be more financially secure, which would be medicine. But then in college, I actually became friends with the grandsons of the founder of Adobe, Bill Warnock. And I showed them my videos when I was getting ready to go to medical school and getting ready to leave my dreams behind. And they actually were the first people outside of my age cohort to convince me that I should try this and that they believe me and that I should do it. So when I say that I wouldn't be here without Adobe, I really mean it. I owe them everything. They changed my life.

So cool. Also, now that you've developed this amazing following and you've really proven that you can produce great content for TikTok, I'm assuming that the brands have come crawling and actually want to partner with you. Do you have any examples of a brand relationship or partnership that you feel was special or memorable for you that you'd be willing to share with the group? I have this ongoing relationship with Disney. I really obviously love a lot of Disney properties. They have shaped my life as a creative person and as a fan. And because of that, Disney has come back to me to advertise their properties, like Disney shows and Marvel movies that have come out. And because of that, I've grown an even stronger relationship with my community who watch me edit, and they're like, "Oh, you're doing this on TikTok. Why don't you do this for Marvel or why don't you do this for the entertainment community or for the film industry?" And it really inspires me to keep going. And I've been really lucky to keep working with Disney. Very cool. I think that's a lot of people's dream brand to work with.

How about... We talked a lot about, like, the signals that you can get from just immediate reactions to whether something's performing or not on TikTok. Over time, what kind of content have you seen perform well for you on the platform? And maybe things that you've tried that haven't worked out so well that you've kind of pushed away from. So I think a really good example of this is the Venom video. This was a video I made for fun. I just wanted to try out this new VFX skill that I had recently learned. And the sound that you heard on the Venom video was a trending sound. It trended for a couple months on the app, but by the time I finished this video and gathered the gumption to post it, the trend had already died. It was past its trend cycle by about two weeks. People had already been past the point where they're like immediately scrolling past the trend on the app because they're so tired of the sound, which actually ended up helping me because I added something new to the trend. I was one of the first VFX artists to interpret the trend in this way. And it sort of gave it new life. It gave it a new viewpoint and a new perspective. So I think that is really effective. Even if you're late to a trend, if you still have something to add to it, still have something important to say, it's not too late to pick it up because it's not the trend that's important. The trend is a vehicle for what you have to say. And I make a lot of sort of longer form content. I remember back when TikTok started, the advice was generally to do less than 15-second videos, something short, like sound bitey. And my videos always end up being at least 20 to 30 seconds long. And I find that if I blindly chase trends and just make things that I think people will like but I don't personally like, it comes across in the video. There's... The hook isn't as interesting. There's no storyline to it. You can't really tell what I have to say, and people can tell. They always scroll past that. So I would say the trend in terms of posting what's effective on TikTok, don't be too boxed in by the trends. They're just a tool to help you, but they're not something that you should live and die by. Awesome. And I encourage all of you guys to actually check out her page after this, but I can tell you, for a matter of fact, the content production on some of her videos is amazing. So I'd love to learn a little bit about your process of how you actually go through the creation process to getting your TikToks posted? Yes. So I do everything by myself. I am the cinematographer, editor, director but also production assistant, grip. So I always set up my own lighting, my own cameras. And once when I come up with a concept for a video, whether it's for a brand or for myself, there's a ton that I have to consider. There's the VFX and editing. If I'm going to use a 3D model, how long will it take to render? Can my computer even handle rendering this? If I'm doing an ad campaign, for a company, do I need to order specific props or can I make them myself? How long will that take? So my process is always when I come up with a concept, I figure out what the timeline will be first, whether that fits into my timeline, the trend timeline, or the brand's timeline, and then I just go from there. And then I use a lot of Adobe products too, almost exclusively Adobe products, actually, to film and edit. I use Premiere Pro for all of my rough cuts, final sound design, color grading, and I use After Effects for all of my VFX. More complicated things like compositing or keying out green screens that can't necessarily be done to the degree that I need them to in Premiere Pro. And I use a lot of supplemental Adobe products. Like, I work a lot in my apartment, and I use green screens in my apartment. There's not much space. I'm not in that tax bracket yet. So I oftentimes have to use Photoshop's new Generative Fill feature to extend sets, make my apartment seem bigger than it is, or make something that matches the quality that the brand wants, so yeah. So speaking of the word brand in a different context, I feel like you've now started to build your personal brand. And I'd love to hear about how you think about how you're building your brand on TikTok and how TikTok can actually help you as you're building that brand out, like, how you think about building your brand on the platform.

So when it comes to building a brand, especially in TikTok, I am a Southeast Asian woman.

In traditional media, I don't often see myself represented, which is part of what inspired me to make TikToks in the first place. I would give myself superpowers or put myself in the shoes of a Marvel hero and maybe give myself Iron Man armor because for me, TikTok was the only way that I could really see myself in that position. So when it comes to building a brand on TikTok, TikTok allowed me a space to see myself represented like that and tell my own stories and also for other people to look at me and say, "Oh, I actually haven't seen a Southeast Asian woman or even an Asian woman in this position before. I'm going to watch this content because it's something that I've never seen before." And TikTok, I couldn't have done that in on any other platform because TikTok at the time was the only platform where people were conditioned to watch things that you're not familiar with because you're constantly scrolling on the For You Page. You're not scrolling on your Following page. You're not shoehorned into only the creators that you're subscribed to. So TikTok has allowed me a brand that I thought was super niche and only relatable to a few people to be expanded to a much larger audience. And I can really do whatever I want it feels like on the app now. Very cool.

One of the friction points that we're learning with brand and creator collaboration is brands have very specific needs. Maybe they have, like, compliance or legal teams that need to sign off on every piece of content.

But I think one of the worst things that can happen is where they bring you a script. And they say, make it good and read this script, right? So knowing that you've been collaborating with brands really effectively, what are some tips for brands on how to approach you as a creator to ultimately yield what we all want at the end of the day which is the best and most interesting content? I'd say there are two things. The first thing is, there is a very delicate balance between giving the creator a brief that will help them create the best content and also trusting them to create content that works best for their audience. And what I mean when I say giving a creator a brief that works well is sometimes brands will come to us with a brief that is very open ended. And they'll say, "This is the product that you're advertising. These are the dos and don'ts, but other than that, you can do whatever you want." And that works for some creators, but a lot of creators actually approach brand partnerships a lot like a marketing agency would. We want to know what the point of the campaign is. We don't know what that is from an outsider perspective. We want to know what emotional tenor you want the ad to have. There's a difference between content we make that is exciting versus inspiring versus something that influence people to directly want to buy the product. So if you tell us what you want out of the ad, it helps us create content that not only fits our audience but it's tailored to exactly what you want. And the second thing is time. I mentioned in my session downstairs today at the TikTok booth that it takes me around 10 days to produce an ad. And that includes all of the rendering and editing and VFX. Personally, I would like to have much more time with that than that, but creators often... Or brands often come to creators with a very specific timeline because there's a holiday deadline they want to meet, a quarter deadline they want to meet, or a trend cycle that they want to meet. But if you give your creators a little bit more time to come up with a good concept or even just create a concept, you will see much better results.

Love that. What about your creative process, right? When you're coming up with an idea, whether it's for a brand or just for your own personal ganic, page and following, do you ever get in creative ruts? Is there anything specifically that you do to find yourself out of them? I know it's really difficult to think of, like, all the open-ended things you could do on the platform or just in general as you're making content. So whenever I talk to really talented producers like you, I'd love to know, like, what's your process of breaking any creative slumps that you're in or how do you start your process of being creative? I do get in creative slumps all the time. I feel like it's so easy with social media to just chase the numbers and forget why you're posting in the first place. And I mentioned that a lot of creators would like to know the emotional tenor of the ad that brands want them to create. And I approach my own content in the same way. I sometimes listen to trending sounds and I just close my eyes and I think, "What emotion am I feeling from the sound? What emotion would a viewer fit from this... Find from the sound? And what can I create as a visual artist that will enhance that feeling or make the viewer feel what I want them to feel?" That's my creative process, honestly. Sometimes I just close my eyes and imagine what I'm feeling and how that would translate onto the screen. Amazing. So we've talked a lot about brands. I'd actually anticipate there's probably some really creative individuals in this room that have either started to become creators themselves or might have aspirations to. Do you have any kind of advice or recommendations for those that have a creative voice that they just want to get out there or maybe... Or early days in their creator journey that you think you could kind of give some guidance or advice to? I'd say figure out what you want to say and why you're posting. For me, I was posting because I just genuinely love creating something. And when I think about what I have to say, what I have to say is this is me, this is me doing something that you've never seen. Maybe somebody with my complexion doing before, like, having superpowers. And that's what I have to say. If you figure out what you have to say, that will prevent you from falling into the trap of chasing trends. And it will... If you know what you have to say, the viewers can tell, and they'll be engaged. Viewers don't connect with say on the brand side, like a business decision to just chase the algorithm. They don't connect with maybe a concept that was plugged into an AI generator. They can tell, they want the human viewpoint. They want a human perspective. They want something that they can connect with. So if you figure out what you have to say, the viewer will hear it, I guess. Very cool.

Well, I think that's the majority of the questions that I wanted to ask. I appreciate everyone's attention and obviously, want to open up and extend new branch. We'll be hanging out here after the session, and we'll also be in the booth downstairs, along with other amazing Adobe creators as well as the TikTok team. So don't be shy. Come say hi. Ask any questions that you have. And generally, we're really excited to be here at MAX. And hopefully, this session was interesting for you guys. Thank you.

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